What does “away from us” and “alienating” really mean? That they were about to start being more fair, take women more seriously, then dropped it because a feminist said something hurt their feelings?

No. It’s been expressed to me that it happens when women insist that the reason there is not gender equality within a profession is due to discrimination, as opposed to education, as Vidya points out.

People, not just men, know if they’re being unfair in their hiring decisions or not. When somebody implies they’re being unfair when they know they are not (and even worse, when the individual is actually TRYING to build a diverse team) it is alienating. To anyone, not just men.

How exactly are we supposed to solve the root of the problem alone? And why is that our price for them to get onboard?

I’d start by assuming that most of them are onboard already, until they prove otherwise. I am not so pessimistic about the current generation of male managers as you seem to be. Remember, the fact that there are gender imbalances in hiring does not imply discrimination, especially when 90% of applicants in a field are male.

Again, it seems like you’re putting the burden on women to manage male fragility.

And, after you post something like THAT, you’re wondering why feminism is alienating to men? :-)

Literally every single source for how to be an ally says that it’s not up to the oppressed community to make things nice enough for you to want to work for justice.

Personally, I’d take those “single sources”, then, and toss them in the shitter. They are not relevant to solving a hiring discrepancy problem.

Nobody should be offering anyone a job they haven’t got the educational and experiential chops for. And yes, it’s very much up to whatever community which considers itself oppressed (not sure that’s the right word, but whatever) in these cases to fix it for themselves by getting the training and experience.

I have a hard time believing our industry is experiencing the torrent of unqualified women hires as a response to diversity programs that you imply.

I’m in big tech, not venture tech, and I’m pretty comfortable in saying that this doesn’t happen here, in the tech community. It was 80% men when I got here, it’s probably 90% men now, for the skills reasons that Vidya mentioned. HOWEVER, there has been over my 40 years a TREMENDOUS increase in the number of women in marketing, management, and senior management positions, so it looks to me like the company is offsetting the lack of women on the tech staff by OVER hiring women in the positions that require business-oriented degrees. And there are plenty of women available for those positions.

Obviously, a tech startup can’t do that. They are mostly tech staff, with a barebones sales and marketing group, oftentimes.

I believe this is anecdotal to your experience, and nothing of a norm. But you will be quoted by many a racist and sexist who cry “diversity hire!” to denigrate women coworkers and/or coworkers of color. I believe you when you say you are 100% for fighting subliminal biases against women in tech — but you must realize that what you say will be used to support those biases, right?

I think it’s very much a norm. But to your other point, she may get quoted, but…..so what?

When you start to censor fact for political correctness, nobody wins.

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Data Driven Econophile. Muslim, USA born. Been “woke” 2x: 1st, when I realized the world isn’t fair; 2nd, when I realized the “woke” people are full of shit.

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