No… it’s not acceptable behavior from a president. Period. Economies, companies, peoples livelihood, sometimes their lives hang on what comes out of the presidents mouth.

I agree with that. I am just explaining how it’s tolerable to some.

if the Chinese (big bear in the room) don’t want to be fair, then you use tariffs to grab them by the neck and you squeeze until their economy falters and they start to get worried about civilian uprisings again.

In this world you can whine about Governments unfairly subsidizing industries, but there isn’t a hell of a lot you can do about it. Tariffs beget counter tariffs (as you can see by yesterday’s news).

Sure. Until both sides realize that they’re screwing themselves more than they’re screwing each other, and then they go to the bargaining table and make nice.

In a trade war, the biggest market has the most leverage. That’s us. The problem is that we signed away all of our leverage with our trade agreements, and dropped our shorts while our counterparties simply loosened their belts. Navarro and Trump want everyone to drop their shorts equally, and a tariff which hurts them more than they can possibly hurt us gives us the leverage we need to make that happen.

This is what happens when your president is playing for votes, talking before he thinks instead of doing what is best for the majority of the country.

This conversation is a bit surreal. Liberals in the US have been in favor of tariffs to level the playing field since NAFTA was signed; the liberals, in particular the union-state-heavy liberals, have been wanting this to occur for a very long time. Funny, the way the policy support switches when its the President of the other party embracing your policies.

If you think it will be painless to “grab the chinese by the neck and squeeze their economy…” you are wrong. And all of this for 140,000 steel workers.

Didn’t say it would be painless. Just said that it would be more painful for them than it will be for us.

This isn’t the 1930’s when a country had to make everything on it’s own. Countries should make what they can with the resources they have where it makes sense and trade for the rest.

In a perfect world where there were no geopolitical rivals and no threat of war, I’d agree. We’re not there. Trade policy needs to be a bit more sophisticated than simply choosing between neomercantilism and dropping one’s shorts.

Gone are the days in this world when you can be the 1000 lb gorilla who makes everything they need and needs nobody else in the world for anything. If that ever existed… it doesn’t now.

The goal is not to “make everything”; the goal is to be able to make our necessities if we have to. At 5% of the world’s steel output, that’s insufficient.

Why?? Utility scale solar generation is already on par or cheaper on a leveled basis than coal.

On a leveled basis. If you tried to replace 100% of coal fired plants with solar tomorrow, the demand for panels would outstrip supply by a huge amount, and the price of panels would skyrocket. We’re stuck with coal for awhile; it will take about a generation until we’re free of it.

But it makes no sense to try and artificially support an industry just because 50,000 people work in a dying business.

If you need the product, it’s not a dying business. Yet. The Dem policy of accelerating the death of the industry was not just going to cause social dislocation, but raise the price of energy. Let the market be the market.

Businesses don’t look 10 or 20 years down the road very well… not all of them anyhow.

No, they don’t. I blame government regulations for that, but let’s not digress.

Spend that money trump wanted to subsidize the coal industry with on re-training coal miners to do something else for a living.

Retraining programs are already fully funded. The problem is not paying for their retraining, but having something to retrain them FOR. Better that the current crop of miners raise their kids telling them “Well, son, you better think about what you’re going to do with your life, because it ain’t gonna be coal” than kill the industry and force them into McJobs.

Appreciate the response… I don’t actually agree with much of what you say, but do appreciate your ability to argue calmly.


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Data Driven Econophile. Muslim, USA born. Been “woke” 2x: 1st, when I realized the world isn’t fair; 2nd, when I realized the “woke” people are full of shit.

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