Hmmmm. You may be convincing me you’re right, but for different reasons.

“Orthodox Judaism has no full claim on Jewish values. If we wanted to be literal to the Torah…..”

Two issues there. The first is that “values” and “practice” are different things. I can be literal to the Quran, which permits me to own slaves, but there is no REQUIREMENT that I own slaves. So, because I live in a liberal nation that has rightly ended that practice, I don’t.

But, that’s a digression. The OTHER interesting issue you pose is that the Orthodox don’t have a claim on Jewish values. I suspect that they would disagree, but that’s also a digression.

What’s pertinent is your suggestion (by implication) that most Judaism has evolved (devolved?) into ….what, a group of ancient tribal practices and celebrations divorced from spiritual meaning?

If so, then you’re right, we should be speaking of ChristoIslamic values, and leaving the “Judeo” part out. The glue that holds (held?) “JudeoChristian” together was/is the belief that both groups worshipped the God of Abraham, and that those worship practices are sacramental in nature as opposed to tribal or cultural.

It’s demeaning to the thousands of Jews, like myself, who are devoted outside that orthodox world.

I guess I would have to ask you to describe what you mean by “devoted”, then. In Islam and Christianity, your “devotion” (if you mean to use it as a synonym for “piety”) is defined by your adherence to your daily practice. I have my five daily prayers, I avoid foods which are forbidden, I keep the fasts of my faith, I cover myself properly, not out of ritual obligation, but because of a deep conviction that doing so is pleasing to Allah and beneficial to my soul as I hope for eternal life.

Is it not the same for you? And if it’s not, how is it germane to be speaking of any “values” based on a religious system and practice at all?

they want the ability to proselytize in govt schools. It is about making Christianity dominant in places run by govt, making it more difficult to be a Jew.

Well, there is a terse relationship here. Although I’m sure we agree that ADULTS shouldn’t be proselytizing in government schools, the students have free speech rights they don’t check at the door when they enter the school. And proselytizing is part of the religious obligation of Christians and Muslims, so preventing THEM from proselytizing is making it more difficult for them to be Christian.

That part really can’t be helped.

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Data Driven Econophile. Muslim, USA born. Been “woke” 2x: 1st, when I realized the world isn’t fair; 2nd, when I realized the “woke” people are full of shit.

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