Do you actually confirm anything before you write? Agricultural revolution was the beginning of permanent establishments. That was 10,000 bc.

Do you?

This one in Oz dates to 50K BC:

What I was referring to was Ohalo:

They were mostly egalitarian societies up until then, they had no currency and shared most belongings in the small communities they lived in.

Well, currency is not required to engage in business. :-)

Any reputable source of history will confirm this, along with them enjoying leisure.

Well, I think we already agreed that attempting to recreate what a “day in the life” of a hunter gatherer was like is speculative and off the point. Feel free to believe what you like. My take is that if a “reputable source”, which *I* cited, says that food acquisition and prep was a 85 an-hour week pursuit, then life wasn’t just a bowl of cherries, due to all the OTHER survival tasks outside of food that one would have to engage in.

The agricultural revolution in 10,000 bc, not 17,000, brought agrarian societies that bartered and traded. The fact that you are trying to stake the flag of capitalism as far back as 20,000 bc is laughable as it emerged 500 years ago in Europe, and that’s being liberal on the estimate.

I qualified my reference to capitalism by using the term “rudimentary”, which seems have flown by you. Capitalism (which is a synonym for “free enterprise”) is nothing more than the private ownership of production, so you obviously have a form of capitalism the moment Og the caveman decided he’d make arrowheads for a living and trade them for a share of that meat that Nog brought back to the cave. So, laugh all you like; what you’re reading that you think refutes that is about the beginnings of formal capitalist systems; that doesn’t mean the capitalistic model appeared out of nowhere at that time.

At any rate, the POINT is that as soon as that items of value began to be bartered, men started to learn, as you put it, “a desire for work”. (Your words, not mine.) The reason to work started to shift from “survival” to “acquisition of value”.

The larger question, which you then raised, is this: Do we NEED work? I’d argue yes, and base that on the above-mentioned thousands of years of human history. At some point, thousands of years ago, (enough of quibbling as to precisely when) people started working for value acquisition, and not just for survival. It’s ingrained in us at this point. Ask any woman what they think of lazy men with no ambition. :-)

Considering that you believe any form of free trade is capitalism shows an immense lack of knowledge on this topic.


Lastly, again you miss the point. UBI has literally no intention of solving a persons desire for work. UBI could exist today and everyone would still have a job to go to. It’s a welfare program dating back to a very similar age into the emergence of capitalism.

I certainly agree that it’s a welfare program. The problem is it has the risk of facilitating indolence, in my view.

Data Driven Econophile. Muslim, USA born. Been “woke” 2x: 1st, when I realized the world isn’t fair; 2nd, when I realized the “woke” people are full of shit.

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